Englischsprachige Honorarberater für Rürup Beratung

[tom12345]

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[etherial]

Rürup-Insurances are a product designed for the german market (saves taxes but is horribly expensive). So I think it is not a good idea to pay an agent/broker for selecting a matching insurance for you. This is even more relevant because most agents (unless they are called "Versicherugnsberater") are allowed to take fees from you and provisions from the insurance (and they do not need to work transparently).

 

My advice: Just don't buy a Rürup insurance it is not worth it.

 

If you are not conviced: Compare the insurances by price and performance - Finanztest (test.de) has an overview of "good" insurances tested by some criteria.

 

[tom12345]

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[chirlu]

A very special case … A “Riester” would also be allowable, according to the law, but it is limited to 2100 Euros per year, which won’t be enough.

[bondholder]

vor 19 Minuten von tom12345:

I do not qualify for the gesetzliche Rentenversicherung.

Ist eine freiwillige Mitgliedschaft in der deutschen gesetzlichen Rentenversicherung definitiv unmöglich?

Freiwillig in die gesetzliche Rentenkasse einzahlen

[chirlu]

vor 15 Minuten von bondholder:

Ist eine freiwillige Mitgliedschaft in der deutschen gesetzlichen Rentenversicherung definitiv unmöglich?

 

I also wondered, and I believe @tom12345 is in fact eligible. Everyone who lives in Germany is, and there is this special rule for diplomats and their family members:

Zitat

Bei Bediensteten des Auswärtigen Amtes, die im Rahmen ihres Arbeits- oder Dienstverhältnisses für eine vorübergehende Zeit zu einer deutschen Auslandsvertretung versetzt werden („entsandtes Personal“), besteht für die Dauer des Auslandsaufenthalts der gewöhnliche Aufenthalt im Inland fort. Sie sind daher wie bei gewöhnlichem Aufenthalt im Inland und damit unbeachtlich ihrer Staatsangehörigkeit zur freiwilligen Versicherung nach § 7 SGB VI berechtigt. Entsprechendes gilt für die mit ihnen in häuslicher Gemeinschaft lebenden Ehegatten und Kinder.

(Deutsche Rentenversicherung, rvRecht, GRA relating to § 7 SGB 6, section 2.1)

 

So this is an option.

[tom12345]

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[stagflation]

The European Union plans to introduce a new Pan-European Pension Product (PEPP). See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-European_Pension.

Zitat

The first PEPPs will be offered in late 2021 or early 2022.

 

[HalloAktie]

I am almost certain that there are no agents with low rates and sufficient knowledge of insurance terms/language for that purpose. The number of new Rürup contracts per year is very low as it is. A speciallization towards foreign language would make no sense and on top they would possibly be liable for wrong advice caused by misunderstandings.

It is probably better and cheaper to just hire a translator who knows insurance terminology and take him/her with you to the appointment with the agent.

[bondholder]

Vielleicht kann das Schwarmwissen des Wertpapier-Forums weiterhelfen:

Gibt es überhaupt ein aktuell verfügbares Rürup-Produkt, das für diesen sehr speziellen Fall geeignet sein könnte?

 

Eventuell Raisin ETF Rürup?

 

[tom12345]

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[s1lv3r]

vor 14 Minuten von tom12345:

In that case, can anyone recommend a good German speaking advisor "Versicherugnsberater"?

 

I personally was very pleased with this Honorarberater, which I used for my RÜRUP insurance.

 

But to be honest, I would doubt, the he - or any other Honorarberater - has ever heard of AuslZuschlV §5. That's just to special. So you would need to make sure, that you understand the implications of that law by yourself.

[tom12345]

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[Castrock]

 

I was in touch with the mentioned Honorarberater in late 2020 when I was looking for a RÜRUP pension.

 

That was a pretty good experience, but you need to be prepared. Working with a Honorarberater for a flat fee means you have to know already what you need. In late 2020 he offered what were considered the best options here in this forum.

 

Eventually I decided to go for the aforementioned https://www.raisin-pension.de.  Also the Honoroberater confirmed in my case that numbers were a little better in my specific case with raisin pension. Ultimately this is about pension received in absolute numbers after all costs. MS Excel is your friend.

Their website comes with a solid user experience. Parameters such as ETFs if your choice can be easily selected or changed.

disclaimer: The insurance associated with this contract is pretty new. That comes with a slightly higher risk that something goes wrong until your retirement.

 

Looks like there is no option to fix typos

[bondholder]

vor 59 Minuten von Castrock:

Looks like there is no option to fix typos

(Neu angemeldete Nutzer dürfen Beiträge anfangs nicht nachträglich verändern, das ist eine Spam-Schutzmaßnahme.)

[tom12345]

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[s1lv3r]

vor 27 Minuten von tom12345:

I believe for AL there are only charges from the fund provider, so I would set 0.2% in this case?

 

For ML there is a fee of 0.5%, in addition to the 0.2% from the fund provider?

 

I would doubt, that it's possible that there are no costs for the insurance wrapper at all. The cheapest Rürup product I have personally seen was 0,56% p.a. (including 0,2% p.a. fund provider costs).

 

Do you mind telling us, which insurer and product we are talking about? AL is Alte Leipziger (?) and what's ML?

 

Also I cannot figure out the difference between your two screenshots. Did you happen to upload the same one twice? 

[tom12345]

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[tom12345]

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[stagflation]

vor einer Stunde von tom12345:

My Life charge a fee of 0.3%.

Alte Leipziger charge a fee of 0.36%.

 

Interesting...

 

Below is what I see in the screenshots you posted:

1. Ansparphase: Verwaltungskosten, Prozentsatz des angesparten Kapitals: 1,36 - 3,36% p.a.
2. Ansparphase: Verwaltungskosten, Prozentsatz des angesparten Kapitals: max. 1.3% .p.a

Much higher than the 0,3% you posted.

[chirlu]

vor 8 Minuten von stagflation:

Below is what I see in the screenshots you posted

 

The problem is that those values conflate the insurer’s fee and the possible fund TER (which in turn varies by fund).

[stagflation]

I just entered the data of the first proposal into a spreadsheet. I calculated with an interest rate of 5% p.a. (as in the proposal). To make the job a little easier, I calculated with yearly payments - results may differ slightly from a calculation based on monthly payments.

 

 

 

The fees would reduce the accumulated capital after 34 years from 626.000 € to 458.420 €. In other words: the fees would reduce your capital by 27%.

[HalloAktie]

Take the following as an informed opinion which needs to be verified by yourself or a third party. So you have the aforementioned cost of the ETF/index fund in percent whatever that is (circa 0,20%). To cover themselves, the insurer also lists the maximum fund cost in the sheet (3,36 %/ 1,30%), in case you switch or shift the money to another fund. Besides, you pay a percentage of your payments into the contract as a one-off fee (2,00% and 1,00% respectively). In case you add money to the contract besides the agreed-upon monthly payment ("Zuzahlung"), the insurer Alte Leipziger takes a premium on top as a percentage- also a one-off fee- of 0,70% in case of Alte Leipziger. The My Life doesn't seem to charge you for that. Then you have a yearly flat fee of 36,00 Euros for both of those. During the time you actually receive your pension, the insurer takes a percentage of each payment to you of 1,50 % or 1,80 % respectively. All those costs are common and those contracts would be, in my humble opinion, as cheap as it gets.

Side note: Since my payments into my own Rürup contract also vary, I've set the monthly payment as low as possible and pay the premium for the "Zuzahlung". If you calculate that with your agent, it takes the posted effective costs to about 1,20 % because the yearly flat fee gets bigger in relation to everything else. But as soon as you pay any significant "Zuzahlungen", the effective costs move back well below 1 %.

 

Basically, in your position, i would decide which insurer makes the better impression and forget the 0,11 percentage points difference. There's a yearly survey on the solvency of the German life insurers. Good luck :-)

 

@stagflation Column E calculates conservatively with the maximum costs of that fund group ("Kapitalkostengruppe"). That's fine. But the actual cost will likely only be the TER of the chosen ETF. Otherwise you would never be able to reach the posted effective costs of below 1%. As @chirlu mentioned, the insurers have not found a way yet to display that properly in the PIBs.

 

 

[s1lv3r]

vor 15 Stunden von stagflation:

The fees would reduce the accumulated capital after 34 years from 626.000 € to 458.420 €. In other words: the fees would reduce your capital by 36.5%.

 

As @HalloAktie already pointed out, you are calculating the worst case-szenario here. The effective costs of 0,7% p.a. and 0,59% p.a. are actually the "real" costs for the given funds and current management cost of the insurance and as they also include the funds TER - which you would also have to pay while investing outside the insurance wrapper - you also have to subtract those from your calculation in my opinion.

 

vor 15 Stunden von HalloAktie:

Basically, in your position, i would decide which insurer makes the better impression and forget the 0,11 percentage points difference. There's a yearly survey on the solvency of the German life insurers. Good luck :-)

 

 

Some points to consider regarding the myLife product:¹

 

(-) The insurance company is rather young and has a troubled history (insolvency of the parent company).

(-) It's one of the smallest companies on the German market.

(+) The fee structure is one of the cheapest² and for long running policies even small differences will add up over the years.

(+) It is one of few insurances which allow outgoing fund transfers for their RÜRUP policies, so you have no vendor lock-in.³ (Alte Leipziger does not allow this!)

 

RÜRUP policies itself are a rather unpopular product in this community. The reason being, they are really long-running contracts (atleast 34 years in your case), which you can't withdraw from. Once you have signed up, the maximum you can do is stop contributing. So it's not a stupid thing, to think a little bit longer about the pro&cons. 

 

 

¹ Disclaimer: I actually have the same  policy myself.

² Actually the "garantierter Rentenfaktor" and the fees in the payout phase are also worth looking at, as you will have to receive a yearly pension with all RÜRUP products. A lump-sum payout isn't possible at all.

³ Though you don't know if this is worth anything in the future, as there is no guarantee that any insurer will even be offering RÜRUP policies in 20 years and while most insurances allow for incoming transfers in the moment, no-one is forced to accept these, so this may change in the future.

[tom12345]

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